MeKeV

EU Referendum on Thursday, 23rd June

Your Vote  

13 members have voted

  1. 1. "Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?"

    • Remain
    • Leave
    • I'd rather not say
      0
    • I'm not voting
      0
    • I'm still undecided
      0
    • I'm not registered
      0


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MadDog    464

Was listening to BBC newsbeat and apparently

 

50% of migration is from outside the EU

If we leave the EU we can still stay in the EU Trade Bloc, but to stay in there we still have to take migrants 

 

Surely then if we leave the EU, but stay in the trade bloc, we can then stop paying into the EU, but still have a migrant issue?

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MeKeV    98

Was listening to BBC newsbeat and apparently50% of migration is from outside the EUIf we leave the EU we can still stay in the EU Trade Bloc, but to stay in there we still have to take migrants Surely then if we leave the EU, but stay in the trade bloc, we can then stop paying into the EU, but still have a migrant issue?

I just find the whole framing of migration being an or the only issue such a shame.There's so many other pros and cons.

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SteveyAsp    41

Unfortunately for some of us who see our earning's, T's and C's being attacked by agency workers who come from Europe it's a big part of the decision.

Also when you see British workers having to join an agency earning minimum wage and no guarantee's of how many hours they'll get a week whilst the Migrants (who for were the first to come over) have Full-Time jobs it's a big part of the equation.

I've said it before and I'll say it again those who are for Mass Immigration either don't have their jobs or earnings threatened by it or are making money out of it like all the Agency Companies that have started up in recent year's.

I'm a Union Health & Safety Rep and I've had a course this week where they added a bit about the EU Referendum and it was more one-sided than most of the games Aston Villa have been involved in last season but everything was "we think" and "this could happen".

One of the Tutor's more or less branded me a racist because I disagree with the mass migration into this country and because I'm a Southerner working in the North West I'm automatically a Tory

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MeKeV    98

I'm sure the directors and shareholders of the companies using the agencies are still making a pretty penny.

 

The wages are getting squished because the company bosses are happy to exploit the system for their own benefit, rather than it being a intrinsic problem with immigration.

 

And leaving the EU probably wont make a bit of difference in this scenario.

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SteveyAsp    41

Of course they are! Voting out probably won't sort it, it's a bit of 'after the horse as bolted'

Things in this country aren't working though and something has to change, no-one knows if voting out or staying in is right but if you keep doing the same things you'll keep getting the same result's so for me I'll take the chance on getting out and hope for a change because this country is a mess.

You can't base your decision on any facts because both sides either blatantly lie or twist things to suit their own agenda and to protect their own gravy train

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MeKeV    98

I just take issue with voting based on a symptom than a cause.

 

I also dont really like the "something must be done. Whether its right or wrong at least this is something" argument either, because thats silly, and last time that was made they voted to throw some more bombs on Syria.

 

The mainstream campaigns on both sides are a joke. Even ignoring that Osbourne and Cameron would probably love to leave, just not under their watch. The 'facts' are the EU is incredibly nuanced and there's very valid arguments and counter points to all the facts.

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kradcliffe    153

Successive governments have turned this country in to a mess. Unfortunately for them now a good part of the public see leaving the Euro zone as a way to improvement.

 

Regarding immigration, I live in a city in the North of Scotland. 20 years ago there were hardly any non-UK residents (apart from some Americans who come over to work in the Oil Industry). We now have two parts of town that are really really run down, one occupied by Eastern Europeans and the other occupied by Afro Caribbean and Muslims. Aberdeen was once considered one of the nicest and cleanest places in the UK. Walking down the main street you now struggle to hear anyone talk English. 

 

The Oil Industry has lost 50% of it's jobs in the last 18 months, and the high amount of immigration in the City is now stifling local residents picking up alternative work.

 

I want my City and Country back and I don't think it's right that my hard earned taxes go to providing NHS and benefits for any person who can freely come here from another country and get these benefits without contributing in the longer term.

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MeKeV    98

Not sure how much affect leaving the EU will have on the Afro Caribbeans and Muslims in Aberdeen.

 

 

I'm not particularly sure how much affect it will have on the Easter Europeans either tbh.

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Milhouse    355

The EU needs reform. Not being a part of it might be a way to ensure those reforms take place. Keeping the status quo and remaining is pretty much the surest way to ensure that they don't.

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kradcliffe    153

You are correct, however successive governments have allowed this to happen. Many I have spoken to think that getting out of the EU may help. Most of Turkey coming here isn't appealing. 

 

The thing we need to ask is why people see the UK as better than their own countries? 

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MeKeV    98

The EU needs reform. Not being a part of it might be a way to ensure those reforms take place. Keeping the status quo and remaining is pretty much the surest way to ensure that they don't.

 

This is where I started when I first started thinking about it properly. But then I decided that was entirely defeatist and the chance of a full on s**t storm based on a maybe wasn't appealing in the end.

 

You are correct, however successive governments have allowed this to happen. Many I have spoken to think that getting out of the EU may help. Most of Turkey coming here isn't appealing. 

 

The thing we need to ask is why people see the UK as better than their own countries? 

 

 

Most of Turkey coming isnt a real thing.

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Milhouse    355

This is where I started when I first started thinking about it properly. But then I decided that was entirely defeatist and the chance of a full on s**t storm based on a maybe wasn't appealing in the end.

 Virtually the entire debate is based on "maybes". All I know is that I'm sick to the back teeth of how it actually is - today - so a "maybe" for tomorrow can't be any worse than what I have now. 

Most of Turkey coming isnt a real thing.

You're all missing the point. It shouldn't be about Turks immigrating. Ask yourself how the fck Turkey can be permitted entrance to the EU while the situation in Cyprus (an EU member) is unresolved? An island partitioned, with UN troops permanently stationed, half of the country's territory under Turkish authority with Turkish forces based on the island, and regular posturing between the two sides that will kick off eventually (the Cypriots have one of the best equipped armies in the world - in the top ten - although whether they'll have the guts to use that hardware is another matter, but they do at least know how long it takes for the Turkish bombers to fly from the mainland, and have the missiles ready for them).If the EU overlooks the Cyprus situation, turns a blind eye and permits the entrance of Turkey while they continue to be an invader in another EU member state, then there really is no hope for the EU as it will remove all doubt that it is amoral and unprincipled, and that membership counts for pretty much fsck all.

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MeKeV    98

Virtually the entire debate is based on "maybes". All I know is that I'm sick to the back teeth of how it actually is - today - so a "maybe" for tomorrow can't be any worse than what I have now.

I'd say it could maybe-definitely be worse.Some maybe's are more probable than others. Leaving affecting the economy for the worse, even if only on the short term, is a probable. Leaving fixing division in cities and towns or dramatically increasing the housing stock or job market is one of them "anything is possible!!" types of maybes.There's parts of the country (West Wales as an obvious choice) that is getting 'impoverished nation' style EU funding because its so screwed, even as part of a wealthy nation. Can we assume a Tory government will happily plug this gap when the funding stops? Maybe... 

You're all missing the point. It shouldn't be about Turks immigrating. Ask yourself how the fck Turkey can be permitted entrance to the EU while the situation in Cyprus (an EU member) is unresolved? An island partitioned, with UN troops permanently stationed, half of the country's territory under Turkish authority with Turkish forces based on the island, and regular posturing between the two sides that will kick off eventually (the Cypriots have one of the best equipped armies in the world - in the top ten - although whether they'll have the guts to use that hardware is another matter, but they do at least know how long it takes for the Turkish bombers to fly from the mainland, and have the missiles ready for them).If the EU overlooks the Cyprus situation, turns a blind eye and permits the entrance of Turkey while they continue to be an invader in another EU member state, then there really is no hope for the EU as it will remove all doubt that it is amoral and unprincipled, and that membership counts for pretty much fsck all.

 By it "not being a real thing", I meant Turkey wont be joining the EU any time soon, for the reasons you state and the many other criteria that are required by the EU, that it fails miserably on. It's just been brought up as another shock horror scaremongering whacking stick. It's not a credible argument.

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kradcliffe    153

The EU are hell bent on getting Turkey in as their economy is actually doing very well at present, hence the reason they are ignoring the wishes of the Cypriots which is really unwise. They certainly haven't forgot about what happened in 1974.

 

My wife's parents just bought and moved in to their retirement home in Northern Cyprus. We tried talking to them about the risks (i.e. disputed land) but they said it was on Turkish deeds and that was good enough. They ain't coming to stay with us it it goes tits up and they have to get out, that's for sure.

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Milhouse    355

Turkish deeds won't be worth sugar (post unification - if it ever happens) if it turns out it was originally Greek Cypriot property/land prior to the invasion. Good luck sorting that out, particularly as the main sticking point over reunification is recovery of lost property/land by the Greeks. That's the thing, when the Greeks fled South, the Turks moved in and took over their land, their properties and businesses. It's very difficult (risky) investing in the North of the island (TRNC, Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus - recognised only by Turkey) as you don't know for sure who is the true, legal owner of anything - you might just be dealing with the current occupier. Whereas in the South, the properties vacated by Turks who headed North generally speaking remain vacant - they're often marked with a symbol on a door or wall to indicate continued Turkish ownership.

I hope your in-laws don't have any problems, but you might want to make some room just in case. How about the garden shed? They can snuggle up with the Flymo. :)

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Dave    70

The EU are hell bent on getting Turkey in as their economy is actually doing very well at present, hence the reason they are ignoring the wishes of the Cypriots which is really unwise. They certainly haven't forgot about what happened in 1974.

 

There won't be any "ignoring the wishes", the Cypriots (and the Greeks, for that matter) would just veto any accession attempt...

 

The "EU" doesn't just make the decision, each country of the EU has to ratify any new country joining. 

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Milhouse    355

Have you seen Greece lately? They're busy cutting deals to save their own skin/country. Turkey has got the EU by the balls. Cyprus is pretty much on it's own.

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Milhouse    355

Well, well, well. Can't say I'm surprised, actually.

All the posturing from foreign bigwigs threatening before the vote all sorts of doom & gloom (no trade agreements etc.) started to fade away once it became clear "Leave" was the likely outcome, "Of course we'll continue to trade with Britain, to not do so would be ridiculous". I really hate politicians, particularly the European variety.

And for all the claims of how great it is to be a member of the European Union, isn't it odd that the Netherlands ("NExit"), Denmark, Sweden, Czech Republic, Hungary, Italy and even France (yes! France!) are all agitating for their own "Exit" referendums. BrExitcould be a prelude to the collapse of the EU as we know it. Hopefully it will be reformed and come back as a much better version of what we have now. A "European Commonwealth", mainly focused on free trade and free movement but without a monetary union or a European legal system that trumps that of member states, would get my vote (and France shall be barred from entry to the European Commonwealth for at least 10 years, because it's what they did to us...).

I wonder if we can now bring back feet and inches, and custard pies sold at room temperature? It's just win, win.

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